Curse

Flame · Mar 10, 2011, 09:49 PM // 21:49

I've been playing Ranger since the very beginning, but I find that now I just can't seem to make a build for PvE that I feel makes it worthwhile to play as Ranger, and not run Signet of Spirits or something.

I used Burning Arrow with a few interrupts for a long time, which works, but just gets a little boring. I have been playing with the Incendiary Arrows/Ignite Arrows build on PvXWiki, but it seems very...inefficient. Before the Asuran Scan nerf I was using Glass Arrows / Point Blank Shot, which was fun for a while.

And Barrage is awful. After looking through the Ranger Elites, I realize there really isn't a lot of choice for PvE.

Any recommendations?

Silvia Shadowback · Mar 10, 2011, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Give barrage another chance while using splinter weapon or a conjure.

LifeInfusion · Mar 10, 2011, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I agree with you about Incendiary arrows and Ignite arrows. It's really disappointing. The burning tacks on ~28 damage but Ignite arrows isn't armor ignoring and also causes scatter.

Barrage is the only Ranger build that doesn't have an equivalent from another class. It's the only ranged physical procs that hits a decent amount of targets (Volley hits 3) so Great Dwarf Weapon gets multiple triggers. Splinter weapon you can just use Volley twice, Barrage just uses p all 5 procs of splinter in one go.

Burning Arrow can't compare with Blazing Spear, honestly (especially with adrenaline boosts, since 6 adrenaline is not a lot). On the other hand Sloth-hunter shot is frontloaded, ranged +50ish damage. Point Blank shot/Zojun's shot are easily +40 if you run high expertise and a prep. Sundering attack/Penetrating attack increase attack speed, although the +20ish isn't a lot.

Without barrage/volley, you can opt for preparations. This means Dual shot/triple shot become much better. Glass Arrows /Read the Wind/ Expert Focus and other preps, while neat, relegate you to single target damage.

You could try running order of pain, barbs, or something (on a hero) to capitalize on the physical triggers. Else just run Conjure + I am the strongest, Ebon Vanguard Standard of Honor.

In areas with heavy hex removal (i.e. Panic doesn't work) then in theory you could run Choking Gas + Practiced stance.

Whatever build you run just make sure to bring d-shot.

Non barrage: Sloth hunter, d-shot, prep, Lightning Reflexes, 4 skills. If you're running Sundering+ Penetrating attack you probably want expert Focus to reduce energy cost, I've seen builds with Prepared shot too. In actuality, with respect to the 4 recharge and 10 energy on Sundering attack, with 11 expertise + Expert Focus will only allow you to use Sundering Attack (not both Sundering+ Penetrating attack) on recharge. With conjures and other buffs, Triple shot does more damage than Sloth Hunter/Point blank/Sundering/Penetrating.

Captain Bulldozer · Mar 10, 2011, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Frankly, you're dead wrong about barrage. But, if you don't want to use it try something outside the box. No one said you have to be standard bow ranger anyway. You can always use assassin's promise, which is a general standby for any profession. You could also try prepared shot to gain a lot of energy and pump it into PvE only skills. I know rangers are not the strongest profession by any means at the moment, but there are still quite a few viable options.

gremlin · Mar 10, 2011, 10:50 PM // 22:50

I'm having a lot of fun with one posted here a few days back

Running as Ranger/Paragon

Spear of Lightning - Vicious Attack - Never Rampage Alone - Enraged Lunge (E) - Comfort Animal - Spear of Fury - Scavenger Strike.

Its working well as part of a team haven't tried it solo.

If I find the post I will link to it so you can read the original posters comments.

Flame · Mar 10, 2011, 10:51 PM // 22:51

I've used Barrage. I've used Splinter Barrage. The simple truth is that the majority of parties won't bother corner pulling or using a tank, so Barrage in my experience rarely hits more than two enemies. And if it doesn't hit more than one, you're just wasting energy with Splinter Weapon for no additional damage.

Choking Gas is an idea, and maybe I'll play with that a bit. I also tried a support-ish Ranger build with Dual Shot and Marksman's Wager for energy management, and just spamming Great Dwarf Weapon and what-not. Maybe I'll do something crazy with that.

Aeon221 · Mar 10, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Pet bar with spear attacks can be fairly fun. All the joy of ranged combat but with a shield and a pet to boot!

Here's a basic bar that would do fine

11/11 on Beast and Spear
8 on Expertise
Rune it however you want

Enraged Lunge (E)
Comfort Animal
Never Rampage Alone (PvE)
Burning Spear
Spear of Lightning

Add in an attack or two more if you want, a couple of other PvE skills and you should be good to go.

Killamus · Mar 11, 2011, 01:12 AM // 01:12

This is the build that I run, it's quite fun. See if you notice something interesting....
R/E
Fire 9
WS 9+1
Expertise 8+1
Marksmanship 8+1+1

Incendiary Arrows
Dshot
Penetrating Shot
Serpent's Quickness
Conjure Flame
Kindle Arrows
Dodge
Res Signet

(Hint: They're all proph skills, missing the +30 attribute points)

Also, this is hardly the most "Efficent" of builds, but it's sure as hell fun to run. No scatter, and it does a load of damage against small groups. Which most things in PvE are, until high end.

ian1421 · Mar 11, 2011, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Incendiary Arrows does more damage than you think, would be nice with Fragility in the team. Actual damage caused by Incendiary Arrows + Fragility has the potential to do 246 Dmg providing you hit 3 hexed targets (r12 Wild r15 Illusion) and can be done every 5 seconds, and lets not forget you can use a prep/wep spell.

More to the point of the thread, I personally like using dagger and spear builds with Expert's Dexterity, the +2 Mark is a waste but I hate attacking slowly, I have run some Adrenaline Junky warriors with 100b and a para and taken Infuriating Heat, using a spear myseld and it worked nicely.

Now we have 7 heros to use, make a team then works around yourself, the game is only as good as you make it.

Kunder · Mar 11, 2011, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Ignite Arrows + EBSoH is actually pretty decent in terms of damage output. The +15 from EBSoH is armor-ignoring. When I tried it (before the BUH nerf) I was hitting 25-35 AoE per hit against most enemies. It would have actually been significantly better than splinter barrage, had I been able to use barrage with it. The problem is that Ignite Arrows' advantage over Splinter Weapon is the infinite number of procs that hit an infinite number of targets whereas SW won't last for 1/3rd of the number of arrows Barrage can put out, yet when you switch over to Incendiary Arrows you end up firing about 1/3rd as many arrows anyways.

Incendiary IS pretty good for less than organized PvE situations in which balling up foes into adjacent range is beyond all hope. Nearby range on Incendiary is just lovely.

LifeInfusion · Mar 11, 2011, 02:29 AM // 02:29

EBSOH is on 20 cooldown. Incendiary arrows is on 5 cooldown and is capped at 3 targets and it requires points in wilderness at 12 or 4 (3+1). Ignite arrows also causes scatter and the 15 or so fire damage @12WS is nothing to write home about other than the AoE, it's less than what you get from RtW or Expert Focus. That's why I don't like it.

The faster your team kills, the less likely EBSOH is going to be useful because you won't be stationary.

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 11, 2011, 02:48 AM // 02:48

I use Incendiary and Ignite. It works fine. Expect the enemy to scatter.

I also use EBSoH, Splinter, I am the Strongest, and OotV. I use physical heroes and a physical support backline b/c of the scatter which makes AoE heroes suck. VoS dervs, paras, 100b wars, etc. Phys damage works well.

EBSoH raises the Ignite damage by up to 20. Combine that with splinter itself, and that does a lot of damage.

I can hit mobs of 6-8 with one Incendiary Arrows shot and they go down more than half their health. They scatter and I know this. I bring Double and Triple shot.

I shoot the smaller groups that form when the enemies scatter with my double and triple shots.

Incendiary and Ignite work just fine.

I also use a build with Glass Arrows, Needling Shot, Double Shot, Triple shot, I am the Strongest, and EBSoH. Its ok single target damage.

Marverick · Mar 11, 2011, 04:26 AM // 04:26

I've been trying to make an Assassin's Promise marksman for a while but I never found something that worked well and didn't feel awkward.
Maybe someone has suggestions..

I guess the main problem is that most of the bow attacks aren't that spectacular and don't have really long recharges, so it's hard to find something worthwhile for Assassin's Promise. A good IAS + defense (Lightning Reflexes) is immediately available. However most of the other viable candidates lie in PvE skills...

I'm thinking "I am the Strongest!" might be good since it provides 160 armor-ignoring damage.

Then we need a way to burn out IATS quickly since 8 shots is a lot.

Read the Wind is the only viable preparation because of the attribute split (max marks, rest in expertise/deadly arts). Triple Shot -> Dual Shot is +150 damage and 5 arrows of ~75% damage ~= 80 damage. Then we add in "Finish Him!" for ~180 damage (80 + deep wound)

This is only 430 damage. With some help (and no enemy defense) it will drop target below 50%, at which point we can fire 3 Needling Shots of ~70 damage for a total of 640 damage. Which is respectable but could be better...

Ideally a party member with Great Dwarf Weapon would be great since it is near guaranteed knockdown as well as +160 damage. Then we could add in Sloth Hunter's Shot (for when target is KD'd) which adds another 60 or so damage. Unfortunately heroes can't use GDW so orders will have to suffice...

EBSoH is too demanding on energy, and casting it at the start of a fight means you have insufficient energy to finish the chain... again we need a hero with PvE skills..... ARGHH

Xiaquin · Mar 11, 2011, 04:36 AM // 04:36

I started out as Conjure, then Barrage, then Burning, then just terminating everything with old Asuran Scan + Glass Arrows, but now I'm into BM and I have to say it's worth it.

5 second cool down pet attacks keep damage flowing and like others suggest, a spear isn't a bad idea (though I personally don't use one). I use ER exclusively with a few others attacks as options. BS is a great way to combo with that, or SS will work if you need energy management. From there, EoE is always handy, and I like to spec into Wilderness to grab Serpent's Quickness for that as well.

A niche build I enjoy is a dazer. Archer's Signet, Technobabble, Concussion Shot using a silencing bow. Then add IAS and EvaS. Season to taste. Obviously only useful against heavy magic users but that's the idea: they won't be a problem with this build. I probably could have used this on the VQ today but I like my pet wolf.

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 11, 2011, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Regarding that AP build, I do have one that works very well.

Volley, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Lightning Reflexes, AP, Ebon Vanguard Sin Support, PI

If you have a hero with Splinter, its terrific. It's served me well.

turbo234 · Mar 11, 2011, 07:57 AM // 07:57

barrage does suck. get over it people. is it still viable? yes, but it can hardly be considered great anymore.
sometimes i just take around bha or prepared shot w/concussion shot. other than that a couple of gimmick or pet builds are what is left since no one in their minds will take something like poison arrow..no one wants to use their elite to spread some minor conditions in pve.

Amy Awien · Mar 11, 2011, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

EBSOH is on 20 cooldown. ...(etc)

20 seconds is fast enough - you don't move on to the next group within that time - and if you do it doesn't matter what you run anyway.

With the high investment in WS you need for IA you can bring Serpents Quickness to reduce IA's cooldown to something like 3 seconds and that of EBSoH to 13~14 seconds. Could bring Dwarve stability to keep it up.

But it's lots of preparing and fairly inconvenient when you're the one pulling mobs.

As far as the spear chucking is concerend, I don't see the point. If you're going to run a hybrid your marksmanship skills offer better damage and utility then the spear attacks you can use.

I've experiemented with concussion shot and /Me with conundrum and friends - it works, but you need prep-shot or anothe e-skill to keep up energy for concussion shot and the hexes. Perhaps it's more viable now that you can bring two mesmer heroes. Otoh, it's less likely that they'll leave anything to rupt for you.

Xsiriss · Mar 11, 2011, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Completely agree. I usually go as an R/P spear spammer with NRA! and Cruel Spear for deepwound spam. Either that or IA +read the wind/kindle arrows.

The main problem is lack of energy, if you want proper energy management you have to use your elite on practiced shot. Experts focus is pretty lame and an energy drain itself.

turbo234 · Mar 11, 2011, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Completely agree. I usually go as an R/P spear spammer with NRA! and Cruel Spear for deepwound spam. Either that or IA +read the wind/kindle arrows.

The main problem is lack of energy, if you want proper energy management you have to use your elite on practiced shot. Experts focus is pretty lame and an energy drain itself.

expertise + scavenger strike? Successful scavenger and high expertise and nra is paid for.

Kunder · Mar 11, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

EBSOH is on 20 cooldown. Incendiary arrows is on 5 cooldown and is capped at 3 targets and it requires points in wilderness at 12 or 4 (3+1). Ignite arrows also causes scatter and the 15 or so fire damage @12WS is nothing to write home about other than the AoE, it's less than what you get from RtW or Expert Focus. That's why I don't like it.

The faster your team kills, the less likely EBSOH is going to be useful because you won't be stationary.

Hence why I said that Ignite sucks only because Incendiary Arrows is a horrible multi hit skill, and with Ignite you want to abuse the fact that it lasts for infinite hits. If Barrage was usable with Ignite you would have a theoretical damage of around 150 damage x 6 targets = 900 total damage from Ignite every shot against most hard mode mobs (minimum of around 120 damage per target for the uber-high armor mobs, which still hits 720 damage), whereas Splinter Weapon's max output is 50 x 3 hits x 6 targets = 750 damage and ends after one shot. Not to mention that Ignite is self contained, whereas SW requires you to bring another entire character. Even just being usable with Volley and Incendiary together, Ignite would end up pretty decent. But Incendiary alone? Worthless.

EBSoH is always useful. Very few battles + travel time to the next mob actually last less than 20s, unless the fight was a worthless 1 or 2 weak enemies. In that case, you wouldn't worry about Ignite's AoE being weaker, since the AoE doesn't matter.